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  • #428559 Score: 0
    Profile photo of Ryan Boyd
    Ryan Boyd
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    @rboyd4570-ok

    Hello,

    I am having an issue with the Alt Tags not showing. Accessibility is set, option to create ALT tags when published is checked, tags are applied.

    Only thing I can see when looking at source is the addition of (aria-live=”polite”) is added and ALT tag is showing nothing.

    Does anyone know how to correct this?

    Thanks

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    #428563 Score: 0
    Profile photo of Christine O'Malley
    Christine O’Malley
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    @comalley5856

    Could it be Browser related? Works in some but not in others?

    #428582 Score: 0
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    Joe Wieloch
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    @wheels

    You probably already checked this but make sure Empty Alt Tag is not checked on the properties tab for those objects.

    #428584 Score: 0
    Profile photo of Ryan Boyd
    Ryan Boyd
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    @rboyd4570-ok

    Thanks Joe, yes the Empty ALT tags is unchecked.

    I tried opening in Lectora 17 and publishing, ALT tags appear just fine.

    I am assuming it is an error with how 18 publishes.

    #428615 Score: 0
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    Ryan Boyd
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    @rboyd4570-ok

    I tried opening and publishing the Trivantis Accessibility Template and same issue occurred. ALT tags are removed in replace of aria-label=””.

    Screen reader reads the button but ALT tags are removed and show alt=””

    This is why I advise not using the current version of Lectora.

    #428636 Score: 0
    Profile photo of Joe Wieloch
    Joe Wieloch
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    @wheels

    This change was implemented for a better experience when using screen-readers.

    This was changed for the Lectora Desktop v18.1 release, and for the upcoming Lectora Online release (~Sept 2019)

    “Initially hidden text is read when it is shown” is the Feature that went in. When the alt and title (hover text) attribute tags were set the screen readers read the button names three times. Screen-readers work great once we removed the alt and title tags (they read the button name only once).

    Hover text is lost, but it is possible to make your own hover text in Lectora if it is absolutely necessary.

    Please use this thread to discuss how this change affects you and what you are seeing. Again, the change was done to enhance the screen-reader experience. We do not see this as a bug and ask for your experiences and feedback to help guide any future modifications.

    #428644 Score: 0
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    CarlFink
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    @CarlFink

    @wheels,

    Joe, you’ve just triggered a pet peeve of mine.

    DO NOT, NOT, NOT change things silently. Ever. If you’re removing a feature (or disabling an underlying HTML capability) do it out loud and don’t make your customer do detective work to figure it out. If Lectora is going to override the user and do something different from what it is told (and I’m putting it that way to make it clear how bad an idea I believe that is), then you MUST, MUST, MUST pop up a big, clear, dialog box that says, “Lectora is removing the ALT tag you put into your course because we know better than you.” (Yes, I’m doing that on purpose.)

    #428663 Score: 0
    Profile photo of Ryan Boyd
    Ryan Boyd
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    @rboyd4570-ok

    Agreed, client speaks to me like a child – “You need to include ALT tags you know”, “Here’s a screenshot of where you can select the box”. Makes me look like I don’t know what i’m doing, spend a whole work day $$ to figure out “it’s a feature”.

    Would be more apparent if “include ALT tags” was not in the publish settings if they are not going to be included.

    #428670 Score: 0
    Profile photo of Joe Wieloch
    Joe Wieloch
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    @wheels

    Thanks @carlfink you make a good point (more later in the post for you). In this case we made a decision to improve a feature. If this does not improve your published content please help us understand your experience. This change provided what we perceived as a better experience for the screen-readers and environments we test with.

    It also allowed for a frequently requested feature to be implemented (reading initially hidden text from text blocks, buttons, and shapes when shown).

    We request your feedback by telling us how this change:
    a) breaks your content or your content’s compliance
    b) provides a less preferable experience
    c) causes you unwanted rework

    We appreciate your feedback and help in improving Lectora. And Carl, we are working on some in application guides that will notify users that something has changed. In this case we really should notify authors when they load an accessible title that the Aria attributes, Alt tags, and Title tags changed for Text, Buttons and Shapes, I absolutely agree with your pet peeve.

    #428770 Score: 0
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    CarlFink
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    @CarlFink

    Thanks, Joe. The only thing that triggers me more (as a former software product manager myself) is useless error messages like, “The operation failed.” I spent many hours forcing our developers to actually tell the end-user what happened and how to do something about it.

    #428791 Score: 0
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    CarlFink
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    @CarlFink

    Now that my software designer mindset is active again: to disable the ALT tags is to favor usability for the screen-reading audience over usability for the sighted.

    Instead, why not have features for both?

    Above, you write, “Hover text is lost, but it is possible to make your own hover text in Lectora if it is absolutely necessary.”

    So, in an accessible title, have Lectora actually pop up a dialog box that says, “In an accessible title, ALT tags are removed because they interfere with screen readers. Would you like Lectora to display your ALT text as hovertext instead? Yes No”.

    Easy to code and avoids the whole problem, for 99.9% of cases.

    #428794 Score: 0
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    Joe Wieloch
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    @wheels

    I’m going to review the implementation with the team. I find it hard to believe we couldn’t implement the title tag, in another way, or on another DOM element. I also want to see if there is a way to keep the alt tag somehow so to avoid the issue Ryan experienced were people have history with alt tags. We will also run it by the accessibility user group and hopefully get some feedback. Thanks for pointing these problems out.

    #429084 Score: 0
    Profile photo of Ann Sisco
    Ann Sisco
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    @prg1792

    One thing to note is that is that only IE displays alt tags on hover. The actual purpose of an “alt” (“alternative”) tag is to be displayed if an image does not load. The “title” tag is specifically for a hover. Many people using IE are used to the alt tag being displayed on hover, so when they don’t see it , they assume there is no alt tag. But that is not necessarily the case; it may be there but not visible on hover, like in Chrome or Firefox. Support for a title tag in Lectora (checkbox on publish?) would be convenient for those used to having others request “alt tags” when they really mean title tags on hover.

    See the following link for alt vs title (not an endorsement of this site; it just succinctly explained the issue):

    https://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch001076.htm

    That said, completely removing alt tags in favor of aria-labels would not satisfy the requirement of having “alternative” text should an image not load, or if a user were using a text-only browser, as some in the accessibility community do.

    I just did a quick test using v18.1.2. When I turn off the images in the IE browser, I do see the alt text for my main content image, so that’s correct. However, I do not see the alt text for any of the image buttons I’ve used or transparent buttons or for any controls in the audio play bar. That should be corrected. Alt text displays properly for images and buttons using v16.2.2 when images are turned off, but not for the audio Play and Mute buttons.

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by Profile photo of Ann Sisco Ann Sisco.
    #429216 Score: 0
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    Ann Sisco
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    @prg1792

    @rboyd4570-ok, I have been using some jQuery to augment the HTML output by Lectora v18.1.2. I took a look at setting the title attribute for image and button objects based on their alt and aria-label attributes, respectively. This might be a work-around for you until a formal solution is in place.

    1) Open a text editor and copy/paste the following code (comments included to explain what’s going on):

    //–need to do this to avoid conflicts
    $ = triv$.noConflict();
    //–this will fire when the DOM structure loads
    $(“document”).ready(function(){
    //–a slight delay (1.5 sec) is needed here because the content is drawn dynamically
    setTimeout(function() {
    //–for every image, set its title to the value of its alt tag
    $(“img”).attr(“title”, function(){
    return $(this).attr(“alt”);
    });
    //–for every button, set its title to the value of its aria-label
    $(“button”).attr(“title”, function() {
    return $(this).attr(“aria-label”);
    });
    }, 1500);
    });

     

    2) save as a JavaScript file (.js), like my-custom-code.js

    3) attach the JS file to your title so it is included in publishing

    4) create an HTML Extension object at the title-level. Set Type to Bottom of file scripting (so that it comes after the jquery include that Lectora inserts automatically. Set File to None.

    5) Click Edit and add the following line (change to match your filename):
    <script type=”text/javascript” src=”my-custom-code.js”></script>

    6) Save and publish your title.

    Give it a try. (Sorry, the Forum editor has removed the indentations i included to make the code more readable.)

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by Profile photo of Ann Sisco Ann Sisco.
    • This reply was modified 4 months, 2 weeks ago by Profile photo of Ann Sisco Ann Sisco.
    #433876 Score: 0
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    Monica Spencer
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    @mspencer.2813

    @prg1792, I tried your work-around but it didn’t work for me. Perhaps I misunderstood Step 3. Can you clarify how exactly I should attach the js file to my title?

    In response to this thread in general:

    I really hope Trivantis reinstates the alt-text-as-hover-text in the next update. Or at least give us the ability to designate the title text as alt text so that it will show up in the hover text.

    In a course originally developed in Lectora 17, I relied on the hover text as a keyboard-tabbable alternative to image button labels that appeared On Mouse Enter and disappeared On Mouse Exit (since these actions aren’t keyboard-accessible). The hover text alternative benefited sighted keyboard users who can’t use a mouse.

    I’m in the process of making a few minor updates to the course. When I republished it in Lectora 18 (to use the HTML5-only option to ensure no Flash), the hover text disappeared.

    While I certainly appreciate Trivantis’ efforts to improve compatibility with screen readers, please keep sighted keyboard users in mind as well.

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